Vegan Ketosis

meatbizzy

Has anyone tried it?

I did it for 2 months and it went amazing. I lost 7.3lbs of pure body fat. Verified by using a colleges bodpod to test BF during the 2 months.

It would not have been possible without cronometer.

I was able to narrow down everything right where it should be.

robeiii

Great job on the body fat drop!

Im not sure it what I did was "Vegan Ketosis" but what I DID do was intermittent fasting on a WFPB / vegan diet. (went vegan about 4 months ago after watching "what the health")
Lost 30lbs and dropped my body fat from 26% to 16%.

Just kept my eating window to less than 8 hours (sometime 4 hours) and trying to eat mostly whole food plant based during that window.

I felt great and worked great. dropped my cholesterol from 275 to 145.

How do you define "Vegan ketosis" ?

THanks!
Rob

Aaron

Curious what were the main foods you used? I imagine you can get a decent vegan keto diet off of a base of avocados, nuts, olive & other vegan oils, leafy greens.

Lacto-Ovo vegetarian is much easier when you can add eggs and cheese. I imagine vegan keto repertoire could get a little repetitive.

robeiii

@Aaron, I guess I have Keto defined wrong... sorry. I eat normal WFPB lowfat in the evening then fast for 16 to 22 hours. so not Keto after looking it up. But the WFPB intermittent fasting worked wonders for me.

Paul

I think you'd have to be in cahoots with a Mexican avocado farmer in order to get enough potassium.

Those guys don't shut up about potassium.

DonnaLH

Have any of you looked into the "Fasting Mimicking Diet" designed by USC Professor Valter Longo? It is included in his recent book, "The Longevity Diet". I think it qualifies as short-term "vegan keto" as it is 100% plant based and he states that it induces ketosis, which in this case is a step toward the goal of inducing autophagy for its many benefits, which may include weight loss. It is a 5 day program with reduced calories and restricted protein and carbs, meant to be repeated monthly or quarterly depending on one's needs.

Autophagy means "to eat oneself", and is a recycling of the protein you already have in your body, but which is not in properly functioning cells, sort of a house cleaning - and upon refeeding, a rebuilding process is initiated which is shown to trigger new stem cells and to renew organs... sounds bizarre but is all science-based.

Having read that book, my interest in joining Cronometer was initially to help me better "mimic" the "Fasting Mimicking Diet" (after trying it on a spreadsheet). It is not well defined in the book, as apparently it was in the Italian version of the book and it initiated lawsuits it seems, but I have found others on the web who have found the macros and have devised their own menus...

Anthony

DonnaLH, can you share what you found or learned?

DonnaLH

Sure, well for starters, I am no longer vegan. The book I referenced by longevity researcher Professor Longo was influential in that regard (he jokes that the healthiest diet is being a vegan who eats fish, and adding eggs and dairy in your 60s, I'm 63 now), as was a DNA test analyzer by Dr. Rhonda Patrick (FoundMyFitness Genetics) showing me I was a very low producer of choline, and through Cronometer I discovered I was not getting nearly enough in my diet! I now therefore eat eggs and fish ... but the Fasting Mimicking Diet IS vegan, and it is said to induce ketosis though some doubt that it would as it is rather high in carbs. My DIY version DID induce ketosis in me, I used a KetoMojo to find out.

I simply eliminated the main sources of carbs (most fruits, roots, grains) and proteins (beans) from my diet for the 5 days, and just ate leafy greens and other veggies (onions, mushrooms, tomatoes, even some squash...), berries, and lots of nuts and seeds. My approach, and my results were very similar to this lovely woman on YouTube, who even made a spreadsheet you can use (I did not), find her experiment at GenXLifeIsGood.

thenuttyitalian

@DonnaLH Wow, so I just joined cronometer AND I've got the Longevity Factor on my bedside table! My husband and I are currently doing a 10+ day juice cleanse (inspired by Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead). We were already vegan so it's not THAT hard although I'm craving my beans and nuts! So I wanted to use cronometer to see if I was getting enough protein. We'll see after a day of eating and calculations. I'm really glad you brought up choline, because that wasn't even on my radar. I see that it is, indeed, important to prevent cognitive decline. So now I will definitely monitor that. I'm curious about your DNA analysis. Did you do that before and after the FMD? Did your Dr tell you that choline needs wouldn't be met by staying vegan, or did you decide it was easier/healthier to go the egg and fish route?

Thanks so much for all the info and also for the note about GenXLifeisGood...chock a block full of good stuff!

DonnaLH

Hi @thenuttyitalian , thanks for being kind and curious.

I had my DNA done about a year ago, and ran the raw data through a few different analyser reports, but did not fully comprehend the significance of the choline reference right away. I have a double dose of a "PEMT" polymorphism which makes me have very little ability to manufacture any choline (the body has the ability to make a portion but not all that you need). It wasn't until I got on board with Cronometer that I saw that I was deficient even by "average" needs. That got my attention.

Last week I discovered I may have "non-alcoholic fatty liver disease", and researching that pointed back to being choline deficient! Apparently 80%+ of post-menopausal women who have this polymorphism get fatty liver (estrogen is protective until then), so diet becomes very important... I'm still somewhat angry that NONE of the vegan Doc's I had followed have made a "PSA" about this risk. Apparently this has been known for about a decade: https://medicalxpress.com/news/2012-02-choline-poor-diet-older-women-linked.html

Some estimates I have read estimate my need for choline at over twice the FDA's guidelines, which would be very difficult to meet on a vegan diet. Eggs are the best source. Eggs don't have a face, I now buy organic pasture-raised eggs, non-fertile, they would never become a chicken. Of course fewer laying hens would exist if humans weren't breeding them for eggs... if I am able in the future I will keep hens for pets, win-win.

Be aware, and best of luck to you.

thenuttyitalian

Hi @DonnaLH ,

Your thorough response is greatly appreciated. This is all really important info to know , especially as I am 52. Yes, the Dr thing can be really frustrating. I can't believe I've never even heard about choline. Thanks doc! I know it also varies from person to person. I'm going to have to take a look at my last blood results. Did you do the DNA through your Dr. or a DNA specialist or company.

Now that you mention NALD, I seem to recall something on my last results about a concern there. What is it they are looking at to determine. Hopefully for you it's not. After a retest they said I looked okay, but I want to watch that now, too.

I'm also helping along another science project with my husband...he is Type 1, so it's another level of complication (or should I say, deviation) that the average Dr doesn't know so much about. These days there are so many great online sources (like this!) and we've found some great info on not only managing, but thriving, over 50!

Fortunately I do eat lots of broccoli, chickpeas, lentils which have a decent amount of choline, but you're right, eggs knock it out of the ballpark with twice the amount.
Ha! True, they don't have a face! But I worry about their mama's face and if it causes them distress when the eggs are taken. I really appreciate you emotionalize and intellectualize this and are thoughtfully going with organic, pasture-raised. It all helps to lessen inhumane conditions for the little ones. And one day, you'll have pet hens!!!! YAY!

Thanks again for all this info. INCREDIBLY helpful! I wish you the best with your health and your journey.

Rebecca

DonnaLH

I did 23andMe just for the raw data, then used FoundMyFitness for the comprehensive report. Dr. Rhonda Patrick has a lot of videos on YouTube about science... I also used InsideTracker where they look at recent blood tests AND your DNA, very informative, all was quite affordable too, under $200 for all of it, a lot of insight, changed my life actually, I only regret not having known sooner, but we march on, as does science.

PS I'm not sure hens miss non fertile eggs, they would just rot...

thenuttyitalian

@DonnaLH Great info and ringing endorsement. I will check those out. Have you seen improvements in your health since being able to implement changes based on the results?

P.S. That seems logical they would rot. I did read an article about a woman on an organic farm who saw a really stressed out hen when her eggs were taken. Maybe they did it in an insensitive way? Like you said, we do know it increases their egg production in a non-natural way. But hey, look at humans, walking everywhere with a phone in their hand and headphones in their ears. Thanks for the open discussion. I appreciate your input. Always learning!

DonnaLH

I have not seen improvements, other than modest weight loss, flatter stomach, but I was already at my ideal weight and had been eating (what I thought was) an "optimal diet" for several years. I fear, based on current blood markers, that damage has been done which may not be fully reversible. Not fully diagnosed yet however, so it could be something else at play as well, we shall see...

thenuttyitalian

@DonnaLH It sounds like you're doing all the right things, so I truly hope that these are simply indicating a disposition but not manifesting as an illness. Flatter stomach?! That's what I'm looking for!!!

ElizC

I was excited to find your exchange as I’m in day five of an FMD. I used Cronometer to devise foods for each day and have added custom recipes like FMD Greek salad and FMD tortilla soup. Interested in how you track notes or reuse your info from month to month. I’m hoping to use FMD one week a month to fight disease. Would be so nice to be able to save multiple sets of “targets.” Regular/longevity, fast day 1, fast day 2-5.

Fatboy

Dr Longo ‘s research is highly questionable , Dr Gregor and other’s have debunked and even made video’s on it , You do not need to eat eggs or any other animal protein especially if your goal as mine is to live as long as you can .
Go with experts that are not about selling books and more about educating

DonnaLH

Dear Fatboy, saying that (a renown USC expert on aging) Professor Longo's research has been "debunked" by a PAID Animal Rights Advocate (check out Gregor's affiliations) is pretty naive... I used to hang on Gregor's every word, now I realize he is not advocating for MY best interests...

And here is some advice, check out how to get enough choline from exclusively plants, and if you can do it every day, more power to you. Oh, and have your DNA data analyzed to see if you, as I do, have any polymorphisms indicating a high (double perhaps) need for choline...

Fatboy

DonnaLH , You can get the all the benefits from intermitted fasting without paying the big bucks to Dr Longo . Dr Mirkin has promoted it since the 70’s and Dr Jason Fung out of Canada( world expert) give the info out for free . Dr Longo’s research is in encouraging in Rats , in humans It is on going . Did you read the published research papers I did . Also I only used Dr Gregor because he is well known
When anyone claims they have found the fountain of youth , puts it in a package and charges big bucks ....

Phoenix4life

Longo's research is solid...the Prolon, excessively expensive.

Sazuu

https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/choline/

DBanks5

The linked article on TMAO was interesting - that and other articles on that site - thanks