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  • Hi again

    Do you guys have access to team viewer where i can allow you access my computer so you can help set this up properly. being OZ and the time difference is difficult.

    thanks

  • @PAM

    I would suggest reaching out to [email protected]; they would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

    Kind regards,

    Susan Macfarlane, MScA, RD
    Registered Dietitian Nutritionist
    cronometer.com
    As always, any and all postings here are covered by our T&Cs:
    https://forums.cronometer.com/discussion/27/governing-terms-and-disclaimer

  • @PAM Volek and Phinney are some of the leaders for ketosis. They state that a 1-3 mmols is nutritional ketosis. You are in ketosis! Going higher is not necessarily warranted unless you are looking for a therapeutic affect, which usually means you have cancer. The same holds true for the 20g of carbs per day, that is a therapeutic level and may not be needed to keep or get you in ketosis. 40g per day works for most my clients. Remember, the keotogenic diet is carbs to your carb tolerance, moderate protein, and fat to satiety. Start inching your carbs up 5g per day and stay there for a week and take measurements. When you start to see your ketones start to drop, you can see what level of carbs you can tolerate and still be in ketosis. I personally can tolerate 50-100g of carbs and still stay in mild ketosis.

    Here is a chart for you to see what I mean as well from Volek and Phinney.

    Best regards,
    Frank Alvarez
    cronometer.com
    As always, any and all postings here are covered by our T&Cs:
    https://forums.cronometer.com/discussion/27/governing-terms-and-disclaimer

  • thanks Frank

    i suppose i am just confused on how much protein i should be eating. maybe eating more will raise the ketone level and keeping carbs down to 20. i am happy at 20 and i find fairly easy to do, would that be correct.

    my husband took a blood sample before going to the gym reading 0.5 then when he returned it was 0.2. am i write in saying that he is burning ketones and fat at this stage. is that correct.

  • edited October 2017

    @PAM Your protein content you can treat very similar to the carbs. What I mean is that you can play with it and see if you have a tolerance level. Protein will be much more subtle, but it is a player. As you exercise more you need more protein and can get away with eating more. That holds true for carbs as well. Long distance endurance athletes(ironman, marathoners, 50 and 100 mile runners etc) can consume hundreds of grams of carbs and stay in ketosis.

    For your husband, that is a tough one without knowing more on what he is actually doing and if he is keto adapted yet. There are some anecdotal reports out there that show some exercises/intensity levels can cause your insulin to go up and ketones to go down or vice versa. Just about every combo has been seen. I personally see my glucose come up and my ketones down when I hit it very hard and intense.

    Here is an anecdotal report from Dr. Peter Attia that shows this: http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/the-interplay-of-exercise-and-ketosis-part-i

    Dr. Peter Attia is very well respected in the low carb/keto community.

    Hope that helps!

    Best regards,
    Frank Alvarez
    cronometer.com
    As always, any and all postings here are covered by our T&Cs:
    https://forums.cronometer.com/discussion/27/governing-terms-and-disclaimer

  • Hello @butterfly you wrote:

    "I need B12. I eat mostly plant based foods and tiny amounts of butter & maybe some sheep yogurt -not much though. So far I get sick with all the B12 supplements I've tried."

    Here are three ideas for you to explore:

    1) Someone posted on YT there is a form of B12 that is used in Europe that is in another chemical form than that used in other countries like the two common ones used in the USA. Have you known about this European form of B12, and have you tried it? I'm interested in any results you might find.

    2) Some people have also posted on YT that they have some genetic problem with absorbing B12 in certain forms. There is a genetic test you can take to see whether you might have this problem. Do you know about this? Let us know if you take the genetic test, please.

    3) You really only need very small amounts of B12 compared to the often very high dose that is found in pill or liquid form. You might consider getting a Vegan B12 supplement that you can easily break-up into a tiny fraction of the pill to approximate only taking the RDA. Also, if it's in liquid form, then you could dissolve just one-drop into a large glass of water. Then you could just drink small amounts over an entire day, so you really would be micro-dosing the amount you take-in. Try this idea and let us know if this works or not.

    Good luck with finding an answer that works for you, and give us a progress report too. Thanks.

  • edited October 2017

    Hi @MicrobiomeVegan

    For your comments

    1) No, I hadn't heard of this! But I'm really keen to find out about it now. If I find anything and even try it I'll certainly let you know here. I really thought I'd tried about everything so it's really good to know there's at least another possibility.

    2) I've heard about that test but never found out about it for myself. I guess I really should, it would be better to know something like that.

    3) Yeah, that's what I've kind of been thinking in general. They often put pretty large dosages in many supplements. I didn't know the B12 amounts needed are small. Since I'm getting no extra except the little bit in my food, even a small amount of a B12 supplement (especially considering what you're saying about only_needing_ small amounts, may be enough for me. At least it would be a start.

    _ "Also, if it's in liquid form, then you could dissolve just one-drop into a large glass of water. Then you could just drink small amounts over an entire day, so you really would be micro-dosing the amount you take-in. Try this idea and let us know if this works or not."_ Wow!! I absolutely LOVE this idea! :D This is so much like other stuff I do. I like herbs and spices but since they were making me not feel so well I just use small amounts and find it's perfectly fine for me. So love this idea about one drop in a large glass of water over a whole day! I will definitely let you know how things go.

    Wow, so really kind and helpful of you to give those ideas. Cheers! :smile:

  • @MicrobiomeVegan
    Or breaking a capsule or tablet or whatever into small pieces I like the idea of also. Thanks!

  • Is it bad to stay in ketosis for extended periods? I'm really new at this. Thanks!

  • edited October 2017

    @butterfly I'm pleased I might have given you some ideas worth trying. You should seriously consider trying the following first, imo. Here's what I just found-out about my B12 noted just below:

    Just for fun & curiosity's sake, I went to check the B12 info on my liquid dropper dose that I have. I was amazed that it was 20,000% the RDA for B12 with just one-milliliter dose. So, I got out my one milliliter dropper and measured how many drops it took for just one-milliliter. It was 42 drops, but it will definitely be a different count for other droppers. (I explain below why.) So all I had to do was divide 42 into 20,000 and I got 476% of the RDA of B12 for every drop!

    That means if I put one drop in a gallon of distilled water, and kept it in the refrigerator where it must be kept cold in total darkness too, then I could drink this slowly over a 4 day period and still get almost 120% of my RDA for B12. That's one gallon of water to drink slowly over 4 days!

    I seriously believe it is very unlikely you would react to this low micro-dose. I buy this B12 from Amazon for sale price of about $15 or $20 regular price USA. At this low dose it's good for years if kept in the refrigerator in total darkness.

    Now, be certain you actually use a dropper with a 1ml measure AND count how many drops it takes to get 1ml. Otherwise, your measurement can be way-off compared to what my dropper did. Here's why...I checked The Standard Measurement for how many drops there should be per 1ml, and it is MUCH LOWER than what I got with my dropper. It actually should be 15 drops per 1ml. That would be about 13 days worth of 100% RDA in a gallon of water for B12 per ONE drop (if it's 15 drops/ml). Amazing!

    Of course, once you realize you do not react at these low micro-doses, just to be safe, you could try doubling or tripling the dose to 2-3 drops to be certain you're getting plenty of B12. Healthy people or "normal metabolism" should have no problem with the extra B12, as your body will just get rid of the excess through urine.

    Let us know if you try this. If you want to check the info on the B12 I use from Amazon, then it's this one: Salt Lake Supplements 60ml bottle, 20,000% RDA B12 per One-Milliliter Dose (Can be bought on sale from $15 to $20.)

    https://amazon.com/Vitamin-B12-Liquid-Drops-Metabolism/dp/B00V3R4CJY/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1508109278&sr=8-1&keywords=vitamin+b12&refinements=p_89%3ASalt+Lake+Supplements

  • @Dianadee58 It depends and is a debate point I am sure! There are many cultures (Inuit/Eskimo) that lived on high fat diet their entire life very well. As with any dietary approach, it may not be for you. A ketogenic approach is very anti-inflammatory, has many therapeutic values, and has the side affect of weight loss. I teach people about keto and an important aspect is that it is all about controlling insulin. Insulin is required for humans, or we will die, but it can't run a muck either. Ketosis helps control insulin. You can/should come out of ketosis every now and then. In our modern world I don't see how you can stay in it 100% of the time.

    Give it a shot with the help of a qualified practitioner, which you can find here, and see how it goes. Test your health markers often and see how it goes for you. I love it and my markers are better then they ever have been. Enjoy the journey!

    Best regards,
    Frank Alvarez
    cronometer.com
    As always, any and all postings here are covered by our T&Cs:
    https://forums.cronometer.com/discussion/27/governing-terms-and-disclaimer

  • ok here goes. i am in my 8th week . doing good. the first 6 weeks i lost 13 pounds . the last 6 i have been yo yo ing and only lost one pound. by BMR is 2347 (light activity) so if i want to loose 2 pounds \week , i cant consume more than 1347 cal \day . which i am not. my average has been 1222 cal \day. my av protein is 86g/day . carbs 15g/day and fat 88 g/day. so what to do? i am still in ketosis (according to the strips-urine check). i dont want to get discouraged. thanks

  • @butterfly @MicrobiomeVegan

    The RDA for B12 is only 2.4 mcg per day. Because B12 deficiency can cause permanent damage, health authorities recommend a higher dose than this for vegans. Generally speaking, I recommend at least 100 mcg plus yearly monitoring to make sure that B12 levels are in the normal range.

    Keep in mind that plant milk and many vegan alternatives are also fortified with B12.

    Kind regards,

    Susan Macfarlane, MScA, RD
    Registered Dietitian Nutritionist
    cronometer.com
    As always, any and all postings here are covered by our T&Cs:
    https://forums.cronometer.com/discussion/27/governing-terms-and-disclaimer

  • Thank you Frank! I have been very low carb for the past 3 weeks. I'm studying and finding a lot of different approaches. Dr. Berg says don't drink a lot of water. I have always read drink a LOT of water to prevent kidney damage. ?? Also I am a bit stuck on the food part. How do I find that qualified practitioner? I really want to be a fat burner. I'm reading Dr. Mercola's new book now. Thank you for your advice.

  • Hi Frank can you tell me what is the best Potassium supplement to take. I am really low with food intake and have been told that i should get these levels up. i am taking plenty of magnesium and sodium but still have bad leg cramps and apparently this might solve the problem.

  • edited October 2017

    @Dianadee58 Not to discredit Dr. Berg because I don't know the context of that statement. I can just say you will only live about 3 days without water. I wouldn't and don't tell anyone to not drink a lot of water. Now, a lot is not 5 gallons per day! A good amount is 30ml (1oz) per kg (2.2 #) of lean muscle mass. Add a liter more per hour you workout. For me that puts me at about 3 liters per day. I am 6ft tall triathlete/runner type.

    I teach keto and I am a pratitioner here as well. You can contact me at my site: www.franklynutritious.com

    And keep reading Dr. Mercola's book! It is a great resource, but keto is very easy to mess up without some good guidance.

    Best regards,
    Frank Alvarez
    cronometer.com
    As always, any and all postings here are covered by our T&Cs:
    https://forums.cronometer.com/discussion/27/governing-terms-and-disclaimer

  • edited October 2017

    @PAM Contact me through my site www.franklynutritious.com and I can make some recommendations for potassium supplements. There are so many companies out there you have to be careful. Many are very good, but the vast majority are very bad and not selling you anything of value.

    Start with adding some of these foods: sea salt (Celtic and Himila are really good ones).
    Avocados 1 cup = 727mg
    Beet root leaves 1 cup = 1200mg
    Swiss Chard 1 cup = 960mg
    Spinach 1 cup = 838mg

    Have that as a salad will almost nail your potassium for the day!

    Other foods: Salmon, halibut, tuna, paprika, and cacao.

    Best regards,
    Frank Alvarez
    cronometer.com
    As always, any and all postings here are covered by our T&Cs:
    https://forums.cronometer.com/discussion/27/governing-terms-and-disclaimer

  • Thanks Frank shall do

  • edited December 2017

    deleted: wrong place

    "I've never considered excessive sanity a virtue" Mike Uris, San Antonio Express-News, 2002

  • Hi, I am new to Cronometer and have a question about Aaron's October 2017 response about body fat: "You should log your actual body fat % to the diary (Click add biometric) so it can stop guessing and use your reading."

    I apologize in advance if I cant figure out how to respond directly to his post.

    Just now, Cronometer had a popup that stated "we are calculating your body fat at 57%." It's actually 47%, so I followed the instructions by adding the body fat % in the diary, and it shows up in my food list, which is not intuitive for me (that it would show up in the food list).
    1. Is this correct?
    2. Do I have to do this every day?
    3. Does the software pick this up and do something with the information?
    4. If I did not do this correctly, could someone let me know?

    After 3 false starts with other products, Cronometer was just what I was looking for!

    Thank you!

  • @jebir Our diary is more than a food list. It is a daily recording of any measurements, exercises, notes and foods. So when you log your body fat to a day in the diary it informs us that on that specific date, your body fat was x%. You don't need to do this every day. The software will assume that is your body fat % until you log a new value later on. So if your body fat % changes significantly, you should log a new value to your diary to keep the software up to date with your progress.

  • Frank, you wrote "You can/should come out of ketosis every now and then. In our modern world I don't see how you can stay in it 100% of the time."

    Once I'm at my target weight, could you give a sensible choice for how many weeks on and off ketosis that might be? Is it two months on, two months off or is it just a week off now and then?

    And can you hint at why periodically coming off is healthier than permanently staying on? I worry when I don't know a reason for an action.

  • I'm new here. Just beginning to feel my way around. I have a problem with the calorie count on Cronometer. I took a recipe for oatmeal, Kale, egg, and avocado from a website and input the info to Cronometer. The website, Cooking Light, said the recipe was 360 calories. Cronometer says the calories are 593. Boy, that's a big difference. It's 1 cup Oatmeal, 3 slices avocado, 1 cup Kale, 1 egg fried, 1 Tbsp. 2% milk, 1 Tbsp. Olive Oil. Who is right? The difference is so big it's scary. Thanks for any help.

  • DonO, I just keyed the recipe from http://www.cookinglight.com/food/recipe-finder/kale-avocado-fried-egg-oatmeal-bowl into a Cronometer new recipe and it comes to 346 calories which is pretty close to the quoted 360, you might like to check what you keyed in. It's half a cup of oats, for instance, and a teaspoon of olive oil not a tablespoon. The avocado size you pick makes a big difference too.

  • Oh man, you're right. Thanks for setting me straight.

  • edited February 2018

    Spot...returning to the confusion...the recipe calls for 1/2 cup oatmeal to 1 cup water. That means when logging it into your diary one would have to select 1 cup oatmeal because that is what 1/2 cup oatmeal and 1 cup of water makes and that is what is consumed. So, now I'm back to the question of the difference in calories when logging in what I actually consumed.

  • Cronometer and Cooking Light both quote dry ingredients in their lists. If you want to enter the 1 cup of prepared wet oatmeal you'd need to find an ingredient that was wet oatmeal and it would be exactly the same calories as half a cup of dry oatmeal.

  • Hmmmm....okay thanks, Spot.

  • @spot The science is sparse on keto for the most part and cycling is really sparse. There is a fair amount of indicators from the researchers and the Doc's using keto on cycling being an affective strategy. It is also a break from no carbs and allows you to enjoy those carbs you like.

    Cycling is not defined in anyway for the same reasons. So, 1 day, 2 weeks, 1 month on/off..... is not known yet. Go by how you feel. If you love being in ketosis all the time, have at it. Try cycling out once a week with a "refeed" day (more carbs) and see how that goes (this is a great holiday strategy). You can play with longer cycling too and see what you think. What I am seeing in the keto world science is that you become more flexible and can get back into ketosis easier and faster with cycling. And of course share your journey with us here!

    Best regards,
    Frank Alvarez
    cronometer.com
    As always, any and all postings here are covered by our T&Cs:
    https://forums.cronometer.com/discussion/27/governing-terms-and-disclaimer

  • That's a relief Frank, I've been invited to a birthday curry in ten days. Now I can go with a clear conscience. What you've said reflects the huge variation in advice I found through Google - people stating as dogmatic truth the exact opposite of what others assert with equal conviction. Your "try it and find out" is a clear winner.

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