Keto - any helpful hints for hitting fat and not going over on protein?

Kikih64

I'm new to cronometer and fairly new to keto. I selected the moderate keto setting and my targets are 47 g of protein and 150 g of fat. Carbs are not an issue for me, I've been paleo/primal for a few years. I do the normal stuff - butter, olive oil, avocados - but have not been coming close to my fat macro. On the flip side, my normal day consists of things like eggs, tuna, red meat. I'm finding that this is way too much protein. I had 6 oz. of venison last night for dinner and that alone went over.

Maybe my macro settings aren't correct? I came here after using another tracking product for years. I like this one much better, but need to get my settings dialed in. If anyone can offer some hints/guidance I'd appreciate it! Thanks.

ketoservices_1

OK, to lose weight and do it right, your macro should be 97 gr protein, 87 gr fat and 24 gr nett carbs. You need to burn fat off your body, not from your food. You are so low on protein you will be using muscle instead of fat with the macro you have now! Your current 47 gr of protein fit a 4 foot lady!

ebresnan

This is a common problem with this app, it uses kg instead of lbs to determine your protein macros with keto. Do like ketoservices says and calculate it yourself. 0.8-1.0g protein per pound of lean body weight.

Support is no help, they state their "experts" have kg instead of lbs. I'm guessing someone read a typo, as there is nothing to back it up in any literature about "medical keto" using such drastically low protein intakes.

comanchesue

Remember the calculation is for what is estimated to by your lean body mass-not your total weight.

ketoservices_1

that macro will kill you. how tall are you?

Kikih64

I am female, 5'5", 135 lbs.

Kikih64

Thank you for your help. I'm guessing this must be a bug in the system when selecting that option. In the old app, I never paid that much attention to the grams, just the percentages. I understand that with keto the percentage isn't a good goal. I will manually put these in and see how it goes!

Dali

I agree that this is a total bug in the system. All other online keto calculators say I should be eating almost double the protein that Cronometer suggests. This totally explains why I felt so hungry even with all those good fats, and why I couldn't hit any other nutrient targets (especially amino acids!) with that kind of number. Cronometer needs to fix this!

Karen_Cronometer

Hi Dali,

Cronometer allows you to customize your targets, so you can have complete control over your macro targets! In the High Fat/Ketogenic setting, choose Custom from the drop-down menu beside strictness. Then you can enter in the grams of protein per kg body mass and grams of carbs non-fibre carbs that are right for you.

Best,

Dali

Hi Karen,

Thank you for that response. After reading the prior responses about this known bug, I did figure that out, and did set custom macros. However, Cronometer should be very concerned that the PRE-SET keto macros are WRONG - less than half the protein that any typical keto diet would require. This is not a matter of differing opinions of what is keto, but rather, an actual malfunction or bug in your internal program. There is no way that an adult over 120 lbs on a keto diet should be told to eat only 42-44g of protein per day; it should be between 75-90g depending on what program or keto theory to which a person subscribes.

For those of us using Cronometer for medically-required reasons, we should not have to find out the hard way (being tired, very hungry and unable to function for days) that we cannot rely on the PRE-SET keto macros because they are wrong. Please either fix this issue, or remove the pre-set keto diet option altogether so that those doing keto know from the outset that they need to input custom targets.

I would like to upgrade to the Gold version, but cannot see spending money on a program with a known bug that has been reported by more than one person, and yet remains unfixed. More importantly, no doubt you want to ensure that others are not harmed by Cronometer's incorrect, pre-set keto macros; these have real medical effects on those of us who are doing this per doctor's orders.

Respectfully,
Alison

KetoNoob

@Dali agreed. I unfortunately upgraded to the Gold version only to find out the calculations for keto macros on this app are completely off. WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY.

@Karen_Cronometer THAT’S NOT THE POINT. WE SHOULDN’T HAVE TO INPUT THOSE MACROS OURSELVES. WHY DID I PAY FOR YOUR APP IF I HAD TO FIGURE ALL THAT OUT FOR MYSELF?

comanchesue

@KetoNoob Wow. Just...wow.

Dali

@KetoNoob ~ Thank you for confirming my suspicions, and for reporting it for others to be aware.

@comanchesue - What is so "wow" about KetoNoob being upset that the pre-sets don't work? Isn't having valid presets one of the main points of paying for a program like this?

ketoservices_1

There is NO SUCH THING as a preset for keto. You need to set it to each individuals macro, depending on lean mass, weight loss or gain wishes etc. It is excitingly easy to change this in Cronometer, which is by far the best product on the market. And we have tested them all, even in European versions. If you would like me to set you up, no problem at all. Give me your login (change the password after I am done), give me your length in cm's and your target. I will set things up with the macro that is correct for you.

It is really not cool to DUMP ON a software product if you do not yet know how it works. Noobie or not, there are much more important things than a preset. If it was there, it wouldn't help you, you would be using the wrong macro in 99% of the cases.

Dali

@ketoservices_1 Thank you for weighing in. I must respectfully disagree with your position. If Cronometer would allowed for people to input those factors that YOU intend to use to hand-calculate my macros, then an automatic calculator could be built to allow me to input those different variables and come up with something that is closer than 50% less protein than what most people need.

However, let's say you are correct that there truly is no such thing as a workable pre-set for keto - or perhaps it is too expensive to build that type of customization I described above. If either of those are true, then Cronometer should delete the Keto-PreSet option altogether. Why put something out there that will be wrong for everyone? Why not refer people immediately to the custom settings to calculate their personal macros for a keto diet?

It is not ethically, socially or legally responsible to offer pre-sets that are medically dangerous to people who put their faith in this program that is offering PRE-SET KETO MACROS that are so drastically wrong, and about which so many users had commented. It is also financially foolish. I would have happily upgraded to Gold had I been informed from the outset that I needed to use custom macros. Instead, they knowingly deceived me into using presets that are completely wrong, and about which they have received many, many complaints. What kind of company refuses to take feedback from the users upon which they depend for their livelihood? Not a company to which I'll give my money - not unless they are willing to publicly apologize AND make the changes required to stop hurting people.

Karen_Cronometer

Hi KetoNoob,

We are still learning so much about nutrition! This is a complex science that is further complicated by how much variability we find from person to person. This is the reason I believe it is absolutely necessary to have the ability to customize your targets in Cronometer. There is a lot of information available in the literature, but at the end of the day I have to find what works best for me and build by diet based on my needs.

All the best,

ketoservices_1

Believe me, the first thing I delete is the preset. I take 26/135/100 personally, so lots more protein then fat. We make a profile for each customer and each is unique, truly. Even if there was a standard profile, Crono doesn't even support copying profiles. Everyone has their own individual profile...…. Let me partake my flank steak breakfast now at 17.40 local. Live keto, but know how to do it.....

Dali

Karen, I appreciate your response, but you are ignoring the point. If there is no way to develop accurate pre-set keto macros, PLEASE DELETE THAT OPTION from Cronometer. Instead, advise people on a ketogenic diet to head straight to Custom macros instead. That is the ethical way to do business, and would have gained at least one customer (me) for being honest from the start about this issue.

By continuing to offer the medically dangerous keto pre-set option after receiving all of this feedback, you are setting Cronometer up for a big lawsuit if someone becomes ill, or heaven forbid, dies from implementing this pre-set option.

Yes, I know, we all waived liability as a condition of using the program. As a lawyer, I can tell you that those waivers are often useless, or at best, are only confirmed after lengthy and expensive litigation.

But even if the liability waiver does protect you, is that really how you want to do business? It's not right.

Respectfully,
Alison

Karen_Cronometer

Hi Dali,

Thanks for your feedback - I can tell you are very passionate about this! It was not my intention to miss your point, but to give you the freedom to express your opinion on the forum.

This is a nutrition tracking tool not meant to replace consultation and advice from your healthcare provider. You should consult with your healthcare provider and consider the associated risks before using our services. Everyone’s condition and abilities are different, and participating in the activities promoted by our services is at your own risk. We encourage you to always put your health, well-being and safety first. We want you to be happy and healthy!

I am not a healthcare professional licensed to give medical advice (science is my game!) and therefore cannot speak to your perspective, but I can promise that we will discuss your suggestion with the team.

Best,

Bridgetnz

Bumping an old(er) topic as I just caught by this as well ... the fat and carb ratios matched ruled.me recommendation but the recommended protein for here was about half of that recommended by ruled.me

It would be nice to get it fixed ... thanks.

Jacqueline59

Can you please help. I've set my protein at 0.8 per kilo and carbs (not net) at 50. I've been doing keto for some time but suspect I've been having too much fat. I'm 5'4 and weigh 74k.

Susan_RD_101

@Jacqueline59

A keto diet is usually around 80% of calories from fat; the numbers you suggested sound pretty in-line with keto targets.

Kind regards,

Jacqueline59

Thank you xxx

SPROUT32169

HONESTLY, I have no idea what my body mass is. I just looked at the picture of the fat person and clicked on it. I am American and I use pounds and ounces not Kilograms and grams. I have been reading a lot about clean keto from Dr. Berg and Dr. Mercola. They usually teach percentages of macros when describing what a daily consumption should be. So, I am a bit confused with how to program the settings to individualize it for me. I guess I need to go pay for a BIA test since I have no idea what my body consists of. I know I have a huge amount of Visceral Adipose Tissue (VAT) in my mid section that won't let go. Thanks to all who are trying to teach me how to use this software.

Hilary

@SPROUT32169 you can learn more about estimating your body fat % here: https://cronometer.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018543292-How-to-Calculate-Your-Body-Fat-Percentage

VegasTortoise

Here is a helpful Keto Calculator recommended in Keto Clarity (by J.Moore), and Keto for Cancer (by M. Kalamiam) books and others:
Keto Calculator. This calculator takes into account all the data you input and estimates body fat % if you don't know it @SPROUT32169 @Jacqueline59 . You choose your desired percentage of calorie deficit for weight loss or maintenance. It's all explained in the calc page.

I started out my ketogenic life this year BC (before cronometer) and used that calculator. As I moved to Cronometer I switched to the "rigorous" setting with no problems and the calculations from the Keto Calculator were comparable with Cronometer's settings.
Now that I'm down 20 lbs I adjusted again with the online calculator and came up with a bit more accurate settings and goals for my macros so now I use custom macros. If I hit a plateau in weight loss, I can adjust again. Really with every 5-10 lbs lost the macro goals should be changed accordingly.

I do use a bioimpedance weight scale that** estimates** % body fat. The more accurate the data going in, the more accurate the recommendations with Cronometer and every other tool that we use. Also, there is a ton of physiological individual variation in nutritional requirements so every tool we use is ONLY an estimate and/or recommendation, not a strict guideline. This caution goes triple for formulae estimates of any physiological measure.
Results are the proof, so if something does not work, go by results and adjust accordingly. For ketogenic diet measuring ketones is an absolute must and really the only way to know if keto is working for you (the global "you", not anyone in particular).

Common in preventing max benefits of keto diet:

• Too high protein intake (excess protein gets converted to carbohydrate in a process called gluconeogenesis)
• Not measuring ketones often, once a week minimum, more to begin with
• Not measuring glucose response to meals to assess body's response
• Cheating or going on and off keto; the diet works best and produces maximum health benefits when adhered to steadily
• Not watching electrolytes carefully to avoid deficits, fatigue and cramping
• Too many calories (easy to do with increased fat intake)
• Reliance on keto supplements instead of "real" foods, vegetables, healthy fats and proteins. There is a lot of cooking in keto!

All I can think of right now, there are many resources out there but some are better than others so reading from the originators of the ketogenic diet is a must. I hope this helps someone.

VegasTortoise

Here is a helpful Keto Calculator recommended in Keto Clarity (by J.Moore), and Keto for Cancer (by M. Kalamiam) books and others:
Keto Calculator. This calculator takes into account all the data you input and estimates body fat % if you don't know it @SPROUT32169 @Jacqueline59 . You choose your desired percentage of calorie deficit for weight loss or maintenance. It's all explained in the calc page.

I started out my ketogenic life this year BC (before cronometer) and used that calculator. As I moved to Cronometer I switched to the "rigorous" setting with no problems and the calculations from the Keto Calculator were comparable with Cronometer's settings.
Now that I'm down 20 lbs I adjusted again with the online calculator and came up with a bit more accurate settings and goals for my macros so now I use custom macros. If I hit a plateau in weight loss, I can adjust again. Really with every 5-10 lbs lost the macro goals should be changed accordingly.

I do use a bioimpedance weight scale that** estimates** % body fat. The more accurate the data going in, the more accurate the recommendations with Cronometer and every other tool that we use. Also, there is a ton of physiological individual variation in nutritional requirements so every tool we use is ONLY an estimate and/or recommendation, not a strict guideline. This caution goes triple for formulae estimates of any physiological measure.
Results are the proof, so if something does not work, go by results and adjust accordingly. For ketogenic diet measuring ketones is an absolute must and really the only way to know if keto is working for you (the global "you", not anyone in particular).

Common in preventing max benefits of keto diet:

• Too high protein intake (excess protein gets converted to carbohydrate in a process called gluconeogenesis)
• Not measuring ketones often, once a week minimum, more to begin with
• Not measuring glucose response to meals to assess body's response
• Cheating or going on and off keto; the diet works best and produces maximum health benefits when adhered to steadily
• Not watching electrolytes carefully to avoid deficits, fatigue and cramping
• Too many calories (easy to do with increased fat intake)
• Reliance on keto supplements instead of "real" foods, vegetables, healthy fats and proteins. There is a lot of cooking in keto!

All I can think of right now, there are many resources out there but some are better than others so reading from the originators of the ketogenic diet is a must. I hope this helps someone.