Hitting micros during caloric restriction.

Zorvez

So I may be getting too technical with my diet but i'm looking to get feedback/adjust my diet to hit more of my micros. Link to diet, https://ibb.co/wLWJFgq (I'm looking to get thin and then build some muscle.). I also tired to include pre and probiotic foods for gut health.

I somewhat follow Bio Layne he has a PhD in Nutritional Sciences with honors (>3.5 GPA), University of Illinois 2010. (obviously comes with his own biases so I look at other experts.) Anyway he recommends I try to get 1.8 grams of protein per lean body mass. I'm 6 foot 1 and 209 pounds (94.8 killos) so around 122 grams or more of protein. Cards and fats ratios seem less specific, in regard to having more of one or the other. It seems there might be a slight benefit to higher carbs( my asparagus takes up 11% for example).

So firstly I'm not sure what ratios to set to reflect the above diet, I just entered gram amounts of fat/carbs and protien in the custom settings.

Secondly, I'm trying to keep my diet simple. Eating a variety of foods would help me hit more of my micros long term but is more cost and time prohibitive. ( I strongly considered doing a custom made soylent recipe) I'm employing a cheat meal in my diet and plan on fasting every Sunday for 2 meals.

Thirdly I do take some supplements.
The first one is fish oil. 2 grams ( EPA 330mg, EHA 233mg) 3 times a day with food. I was under the impression higher doses provided better anti-inflammatory benefits for people like me who lift heavy, but looking at consumer reports they say the following, "Although generally safe, high amounts of EPA and DHA may suppress the immune system. It's best to limit daily intake of EPA and DHA from supplements to no more than 2 grams, unless medically indicated. Fish oil may also thin the blood and slightly lower blood pressure." (https://www.consumerlab.com/reviews/_/omega3/#cautions)

I also take,1500mg of tumeric extract(500mg 3 times daily) with 60mg of bio piperine (20mg 3 times daily)
I also take 5 grams of creating and 8grams of citruline d malate 2:1 ratio.

These are for helping with recovery and muscle soreness. Though I wonder if fish oil and circumin overlap in effects. Am I really getting benefits from both that warrant I take both.

Last but not lest my weight goal is suspect. It was originally going to be 160 pounds. However after looking up healthy BMI's (18.5 to 24.9kg/m2) I adjusted my goals. Looking at a BMI of 18.5 would mean getting down to 140 pounds. Seems a bit too skinny, is that like 5% body fat? I'm not sure what my bmi should be at before I increase my calories by a few hundred this June to start to slowly build muscle.

Just looking for help advice.

Thanks, if you read my ramblings.

Vickie

This isn't a feedback on your diet, but a comment on how you use Crononeter that would immediately change how your diet shows up on the app! Two things:

1. Replace brand name products with generic ones, especially ones from the NCCDB. You will have access to far more complete micronutrient information.

2. Switch off micronutrients that Cronometer's databases don't have a lot of info on. On your list, they would be Chromium, Fluoride, Iodine, Molybdenum. Not that the minerals don't matter; the information is just incomplete at this stage.

For example, on the diary entry in your screenshot, if you just log the generic chicken breast ("Chicken Breast, Skin Removed Before Cooking" from NCCDB) and eggs ("Eggs, cooked" from NCCDB) instead of your current CRDB entries, you should find your vitamin B, choline and some minerals all fixed up. There's still the Greek yoghurt, peanut butter and chia seeds to change, too.

As for the diet part, you may want to increase your greens intake to fix the rest of the minerals.

Susan_RD_101

@Zorvez

While I can't give you specific recommendations (as that's considered nutrition counseling and something that requires charting, consent forms, etc.), I can provide some general feedback.

The protein intake you mentioned seems appropriate for an active individual. I definitely think it's helpful to provide recommendations for kg of lean mass, but this isn't necessarily practical. Depending on the type of training you do, an intake of ~1.5 - 2.0 g per kg of healthy body weight (i.e. a body weight that is less than BMI of 24.9 kg/msq) would be a good goal. I'd suggest setting protein as an individual target in your diary, and not worrying about macros (select "Fixed targets").

Soylent = recipe for constipation! I'm fine with it replacing a meal here and there, but it doesn't contain enough fibre and phytonutrients if you are solely relying on it.

You really don't need more than 500 mg EPA/DHA unless triglycerides are very high. Inflammation is controlled by many factors and this supplement likely has a small effect.

I don't think there's much evidence on the other supplements you mentioned (with the exception of creatine).

I'd let your BMI fall where it wants, rather than trying to control it. A BMI of 18.5 kg/msq is far too low for someone who is lifting weights (unless this is natural for you). As long as it falls between 20 - 24 kg/msq, you are very likely in the "healthy" range (although this depends on how much muscle you are carrying).

And not that it matters, but my GPA in grad school was 4.0, so hopefully this adds some merit to my advice!

Kind regards,

Zorvez

Hey thanks for the replys. I changed the ones mentioned over to their respective NCCDB versions and now I got all my micros. The only thing that's weird is the chicken went from 280 calories 50 protein to 392.4 calories and 70 protein..... if that's more accurate I can drop my protein powder for another serving of broccoli, especially since i'm a bit higher in fat than carbs.

As for the supplements I used examine.com to do the research, but it is biased. (It aggregates studies)

So Susan what your saying is if my fish oil has 330 EPA/DHA I should take it twice a day? Not asking for direct nutritional advice. Thanks

Susan_RD_101

@Zorves

Exactly - take two per day. @Hilary @Karen_Cronometer could help answer your question re: chicken...

Kind regards,

Karen_Cronometer

Hi there!

I compared the nutrition values reported for Great Value, Boneless Skinless Chicken Breasts with analyzed values for chicken from the NCCDB and USDA; it looks like Great Value has reported the nutrition for raw chicken with added brine.

This added salt-water solution dilutes the calories and macros compared with untreated chicken. When the chicken is cooked, it will also lose water and concentrate the nutrients. So you will be getting more protein in the cooked chicken vs. raw, when comparing the same serving size.

Zorvez

Hey, thanks again to both of you for all the help!

I switched my eggs over to NCCDB and am mostly hitting all my goals, was able to drop my potatoes as I'm high in potassium and up my yogurt a little. The only thing I'm low on is fiber. I'm at 30.8 grams of fiber but that is spliting hairs at this point as that is probably 5 times what I normally was getting anyway.

Sadly I also had to drop the asparagus as I went to the store and it was 4 dollars a bundle. Not even sure that was 2 cups worth, I bought 2 things of frozen broccoli (stem and broccoli head) for that much that will last the whole week. So 2 cups of broccoli a day instead.

Unrealted to my diet, but I wonder how practical phytonutrients really are. This gal I watch Dr. Rhonda Patrick, grows her own broccoli sprouts and adds then to her morning shake to get in a bunch of Sulforaphane ( anti-aging and cancer prevention). This seems like a lot to ask for the average person to do. Especially when you consider that their are a lot of picky eaters. Not to mention trying to weed through nutritional studies and the onsalught of, keto, vegan, high far/ low card, meat only zealots. It's the wild west in nutrition.

I hypothesis that genetics, portion control and exercise/ low stress are more important then stressing over phytonutrients.

Susan_RD_101

@Zorvez

Phytonutrients (which are just "plant nutrients") are important for health (preventing oxidative damage and reducing inflammation) but you don't need to go out of your way to get them. Simply including enough fruits and vegetables (raw or fresh) will give you all the phytonutrients you need.

If you are open to it, a few lentils/beans/chickpeas would get you to 38 g of fibre per day very quickly!

Kind regards,

Zorvez

Hey thanks Susan, I totally agree with what you are saying in regards to phytonutrients. I'm more thinking about the general populace and how you help people get healthier and actually stick to a diet. I'm thinking aloud in written form. lol

On that note, I think we need an overhaul in how nutritional studies are done. I'm tired of reading studies where a diet is compared to the american standard diet and not a caloric equivalent diet. I'm more interested in the effects of vegan vs lets say Mediterranean calories being equal. I was watching a film called the game changers and they fed these people vegan burritos and non-vegan burritos, tested their blood and claimed that vegan was healthier because the blood wasn't cloudy. The only thing is I have no understanding why cloudy blood would be bad?

I also wonder about picky eaters, I'm fortunate that even though I don't like the taste of broccoli I can get it down with a little water. I've eaten broccoli for years and still don't like it, so obviously that throws a wrench in the, "you will develop a taste for vegetables if you keep eating them". Luckily I can eat broccoli; eggplant or mushrooms on the other hand will have me vomiting. I wonder if that is a genetic thing? My mom had this idea food had to be cooked right. I've had eggplant a lot growing up in a variety of dishes and always the same reaction, not a texture one, just the taste.

jefmcg

Sounds like you may be a supertaster

if so, it's about how many tastebuds on your tongue. So, yeah, genetic.

quick quiz but honestly, I think it's obvious what answer you will get.

Edit: oh, this is a more interesting quiz http://barbstuckey.com/taste-quiz

Susan_RD_101

@Zorvez

I've known what was shown in "Game changers" since my first nutrition class; when we consume a meal high in saturated and/or trans fat, the fat in our blood spikes for a time after the meal. This isn't great because the longer we are exposed to elevated LDL cholesterol, the more likely it is to get deposited into the walls of arteries, causing blockages over time.

Nutrition is by far the most difficult thing to study. There are so many things to control for (activity, other diet components, stress, lifestyle components, etc.) and things we can't control for (genetic susceptibility). Good data requires large numbers and a lot of time and controlled environments; it is +++++++++ expensive to run such studies, so we tend to conduct observations of different groups of people who self-select to various ways of eating.

"Picky eating" in childhood is more of a behaviour issue, than a food issue. However, there are certain foods that some people just won't like based on taste/texture. For me, it's mangoes... They are so slimy and have the weirdest taste/texture. But, I keep exposing myself to them hoping one day I'll love them! (Taste buds do tend to change as we age and exposure increases tolerance.)

Kind regards,

Schliquid

I don't care for whole mushrooms or thick slices, but I have this mandolin that slices mushrooms paper thin. What I'll do is just slice them with the mandolin, then "grill" them in a skillet until they're dark and about 1/4 their original size, approximately. A whole container of mushrooms will cook down to about 1/3 cup. They're not so bad when you do them that way. You can also put them in a food processor with a little liquid and chop them to little bits so they just vanish into whatever you're cooking, but they're still there. Maybe cooking them as long as I do completely destroys their nutrients, but I do like the flavor.